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#1 Ted Anderson

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Posted 17 July 2009 - 04:39 PM

Attached File  1971_Penn_Yan_22CC_813A_003.jpg   619.81KB   73 downloadsAttached File  penn_yan_1971.jpg   186.58KB   155 downloadsHi Everyone, I've been boating for about 14 years and have come across a nice, old, Penn Yan. I have owned inboards before, but never a tunnel drive....nor powered a boat powered by a Chrysler 318.

I have come across a 1971 PY Barracuda (22' trihull) for sale in upstate NY which has spent its entire life on a lake. I really like the layout, but am concerned about the manifolds/risers which are clearly marked CHRYSLER. The boat is currently in use by a marina as one of their "tow boats"... so it hasn't been laid up for years unused.

My questions if I purchase the boat:

Should I plan on an immediate replacement of the manifolds and risers?
Are there any issues about the PY trihulls[b] as far as rough water goes?
Should I just stay away from her because she's old? (1971)

The asking price is 3000. without a trailer.

All imput would be appreciated. I live at the NJ shore and do only bay boating... nothing in the ocean.

Thank you,
Ted
1971 Penn Yan Barracuda
Little Egg Harbor, NJ 08087

#2 scottk

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Posted 17 July 2009 - 05:31 PM

That boat like all py's is probably built like a tank. With a tri hull they pound a bit more in the rough but are a more stable platform to fish from, especially when drift fishing. If that engine is original for the boat then I would say the manifolds were replaced at one point. In 1971 the original manifolds were more rounded in appearance. Being used on the lake all these years, they may still have quite a lot of life left. I had a 318 225 hp Chrysler in a 22 montego and it was very dependable power. If you buy the boat, you may want to convert it to fresh water cooling since it will be used in salt water by you. Aw heck, go for it.
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1973 20 Penn Yan Montego 225 hp MerCruiser power
1975 28 Cigarette SS 320 hp MerCruiser power X2
1982 38 Wellcraft Scarab Kaama Edition 500 hp MerCruiser power X2


PENN YAN BOATS - If you have to ask why you wouldn't understand the answer.........

#3 Ted Anderson

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Posted 17 July 2009 - 06:07 PM

That boat like all py's is probably built like a tank. With a tri hull they pound a bit more in the rough but are a more stable platform to fish from, especially when drift fishing. If that engine is original for the boat then I would say the manifolds were replaced at one point. In 1971 the original manifolds were more rounded in appearance. Being used on the lake all these years, they may still have quite a lot of life left. I had a 318 225 hp Chrysler in a 22 montego and it was very dependable power. If you buy the boat, you may want to convert it to fresh water cooling since it will be used in salt water by you. Aw heck, go for it.



I'm very tempted. I know manifolds, here, last about 3-5 years of regular use... My local mechanic, who has never worked on a PY, said to stay away from it because "once on plane, they are very hard to steer"....I've had inboards, not exactly rack and pinion steering. He argued the "tunnel drive" design was a failure because it made steering unusally difficult. Maybe I need to hear from another mechanic! :unsure:
1971 Penn Yan Barracuda
Little Egg Harbor, NJ 08087

#4 pilotnomore

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 09:15 AM

I'm very tempted. I know manifolds, here, last about 3-5 years of regular use... My local mechanic, who has never worked on a PY, said to stay away from it because "once on plane, they are very hard to steer"....I've had inboards, not exactly rack and pinion steering. He argued the "tunnel drive" design was a failure because it made steering unusally difficult. Maybe I need to hear from another mechanic! :(

:D I don't think steering is a issue. Hard, proably not except reverse and I don't see any difference from a PY CHRIS CRAFT WHEELER OR THE BROWARD, WITH 2 DETROITS BEING THE BEST OF THE 3 Also no problem with Chrysler Engines you service them and they will take care of you. 3 of them also . 2 flat heads (CROWN & ROYAL) and now a 360. Been happy with all of them! Not a mechanic but I' ve swung wrenches on everything from aircraft to ships and boats down to scooters. Personally I'd go for it. :) Appears to be a decent looking boat at a resoniable price. :o But thats just me with a little input. :unsure:

#5 gerald

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 09:45 AM

In today's world of distressed penn yans, i think you can get a decent explorer or an avenger for about that money. the tri hulls i have been in are not much fun in a chop.

i have difficulty steering fwd going slowly(into my slip), particularly with a crosswind. i cannot steer my boat in reverse. if i do not like where it is going in reverse, i do a full stop and start over.

they steer fine at speed. the explorer had a cavitation problem in chop at 40mph.
jerry
On the Potomac, 10 miles south of the capitol in a sea of hydrilla.

pennyan@slawecki.com

#6 scottk

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 10:10 AM

I'm very tempted. I know manifolds, here, last about 3-5 years of regular use... My local mechanic, who has never worked on a PY, said to stay away from it because "once on plane, they are very hard to steer"....I've had inboards, not exactly rack and pinion steering. He argued the "tunnel drive" design was a failure because it made steering unusally difficult. Maybe I need to hear from another mechanic! :unsure:




WOW........Penn Yan sure was able to sell many of those failure boats. How many different py's has your mechanic been on. Believe me, you'll appreciate the tunnel drive in the back bays of jersey when you want to sneak across a sand bar in 2 feet of water instead of taking the long way around. And if you by chance do run aground you just wait for the tide with no damage to the drive train. One time I was running my old 22 montego about 3500 rpm. Sun was in my eyes and I was tired. Saw some seagulls ahead of me in the water. Didn't give it much thought until I was about 40 feet away and realized that they were STANDING. Well I ran hard aground. After I got up from being flat on my back in the cabin and chopped the throttle back to slow down the screaming engine(they tend to spin up rather nicely with no water in the tunnel) I looked the boat over and the only damage done was to my ego. Waited for the tide and went on my way. Wouldn't suggest trying that yourself. Just an example of how tough they are. On the generation tunnel that your boat has, if the boat pulls at speed. there is a little section on the top of the rudder that you bend slightly to get it to neutral steer. The PY dealer had to do this to my fathers boat when it was brand new to dial in the steering.
Posted ImagePosted Image Posted Image

1973 20 Penn Yan Montego 225 hp MerCruiser power
1975 28 Cigarette SS 320 hp MerCruiser power X2
1982 38 Wellcraft Scarab Kaama Edition 500 hp MerCruiser power X2


PENN YAN BOATS - If you have to ask why you wouldn't understand the answer.........

#7 Ted Anderson

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 10:46 AM

WOW........Penn Yan sure was able to sell many of those failure boats. How many different py's has your mechanic been on. Believe me, you'll appreciate the tunnel drive in the back bays of jersey when you want to sneak across a sand bar in 2 feet of water instead of taking the long way around. And if you by chance do run aground you just wait for the tide with no damage to the drive train. One time I was running my old 22 montego about 3500 rpm. Sun was in my eyes and I was tired. Saw some seagulls ahead of me in the water. Didn't give it much thought until I was about 40 feet away and realized that they were STANDING. Well I ran hard aground. After I got up from being flat on my back in the cabin and chopped the throttle back to slow down the screaming engine(they tend to spin up rather nicely with no water in the tunnel) I looked the boat over and the only damage done was to my ego. Waited for the tide and went on my way. Wouldn't suggest trying that yourself. Just an example of how tough they are. On the generation tunnel that your boat has, if the boat pulls at speed. there is a little section on the top of the rudder that you bend slightly to get it to neutral steer. The PY dealer had to do this to my fathers boat when it was brand new to dial in the steering.



He has never been on one :unsure: However, he has heard that the Tunnel Drive was a dud. Yes, I understand about low water. My home is located on a lagoon which opens to Great Bay. At low tide, experience is your best friend. You can go from 18' to 2' faster than your depth finder can sounds its' alarm.
1971 Penn Yan Barracuda
Little Egg Harbor, NJ 08087

#8 Capquest

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 06:22 PM

I think that the PY tunnel handles just fine. As to it being a dud,,,,Look at all the modern cruisers and you'll see at least partial tunnels.

I could explain to your mechanic where he's uninformed but it would take awhile.

BTW. I'm a retired Master (AGT / AR) any gross tonnage, any route. Grew up in South Jersay and drove container ships for Sealand.

I've had PYs for 30 years. They're a good small boats. However, they don't handle like straight inboards. For a single screw they are actually much more maneuverable than straight shaft.
Capt. David Pierucci
1978 23' Avenger Sportsman
350 Mercruiser

#9 PENN YAN NUT

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 06:55 PM

I'm not sure why you would be so concerned about the manifolds and elbows . That price may be a little high with no trailer .
55 trailboat (model BGS Backrest Senior)57 evinrude 18 h.p. / 45 evinrude zephyr 5.4 h.p. four cylinder
58 evinrude 18h.p. fastwin
75 23' AVENGER "S" PYBAM304M75H 360 CHRYSLER RWC LHR
76 30 sf

Past Penn Yans
77 23' AVENGER "SFT" PYBAM578M77I 318 CHRYSLER FWC RHR (SOLD)
71 Explorer 20'5" I/O (non tunnel) 155 v-6 kaiser / omc stringer (SOLD)

#10 Ted Anderson

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 07:45 PM

I'm not sure why you would be so concerned about the manifolds and elbows . That price may be a little high with no trailer .



My concern regarding the manifolds and risers came from the photo when I saw the word "CHRYSLER" stamped on them. My experience here at the shore is by the age of 30 something a boat (if still functioning) would have after-market (maybe OSCO) manifolds. Therefore, I assumed these manifolds were original with a very limited life span. An expense I did not wish to incur upon purchase.

The price is currently being re-assessed by the owner. Presently it is on the high side given there is no trailer, and its' age. NADA has this boat coming it at about 2400. without a trailer.
1971 Penn Yan Barracuda
Little Egg Harbor, NJ 08087

#11 Ted Anderson

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 08:00 PM

I think that the PY tunnel handles just fine. As to it being a dud,,,,Look at all the modern cruisers and you'll see at least partial tunnels.

I could explain to your mechanic where he's uninformed but it would take awhile.

BTW. I'm a retired Master (AGT / AR) any gross tonnage, any route. Grew up in South Jersay and drove container ships for Sealand.

I've had PYs for 30 years. They're a good small boats. However, they don't handle like straight inboards. For a single screw they are actually much more maneuverable than straight shaft.


Glad to see someone from South Jersey! I am located in Little Egg Harbor/Tuckerton and do most of my boating in Great Bay....in clear view of the Atlantic City skyline. I have yet to see a PY in service locally. I did find a rotting one in a marina on the Delware. At least it gave me a closeup view of the tunnel drive. Even the deceased PY looked very well made, better than my 1972 CC Catalina.... :unsure:

It will be interesting if this purchase works out, though I may need to find a new mechanic. :o
1971 Penn Yan Barracuda
Little Egg Harbor, NJ 08087

#12 pilotnomore

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Posted 19 July 2009 - 09:49 AM

Glad to see someone from South Jersey! I am located in Little Egg Harbor/Tuckerton and do most of my boating in Great Bay....in clear view of the Atlantic City skyline. I have yet to see a PY in service locally. I did find a rotting one in a marina on the Delware. At least it gave me a closeup view of the tunnel drive. Even the deceased PY looked very well made, better than my 1972 CC Catalina.... :unsure:

It will be interesting if this purchase works out, though I may need to find a new mechanic. :angry:

:D Ted I guess you won't find any unhappy Yanners, just alot of supporters. ;) You may not need a new mech., :angry: you just need him to explain his knowledge of PY based on fact rather than rumors. The boat your viewing looks a whole lot better than the one on craigs list with trailer for $1800 in Panama City "act. Fountain" Bubba did the old gal no good at all :huh: :D :angry: !!!!!!!!!!!! Plus look at the price of todays cheaply built boats. I'm LOVIN' my PY and I'm still in refit! :angry:

#13 scottk

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 05:47 PM

He has never been on one :unsure: However, he has heard that the Tunnel Drive was a dud. Yes, I understand about low water. My home is located on a lagoon which opens to Great Bay. At low tide, experience is your best friend. You can go from 18' to 2' faster than your depth finder can sounds its' alarm.


How about that. Back in November of '71 my father took delivery of our 23 cuddy with bridge. We kept it at Great Bay Marina out at the end of Mystic Islands.
Posted ImagePosted Image Posted Image

1973 20 Penn Yan Montego 225 hp MerCruiser power
1975 28 Cigarette SS 320 hp MerCruiser power X2
1982 38 Wellcraft Scarab Kaama Edition 500 hp MerCruiser power X2


PENN YAN BOATS - If you have to ask why you wouldn't understand the answer.........

#14 PENN YAN NUT

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 12:44 PM

Ted ,
I have a friend with twin chryslers with chrysler manifolds on them. It's a 1973 33' Egg Harbor on the ocean every year and they are still fine. Just use your concern about them when negotiating the price or have them pulled and inspected.
55 trailboat (model BGS Backrest Senior)57 evinrude 18 h.p. / 45 evinrude zephyr 5.4 h.p. four cylinder
58 evinrude 18h.p. fastwin
75 23' AVENGER "S" PYBAM304M75H 360 CHRYSLER RWC LHR
76 30 sf

Past Penn Yans
77 23' AVENGER "SFT" PYBAM578M77I 318 CHRYSLER FWC RHR (SOLD)
71 Explorer 20'5" I/O (non tunnel) 155 v-6 kaiser / omc stringer (SOLD)

#15 Ted Anderson

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 01:48 PM

Well, I did it. I bought the PY. I had it water tested and it started on the first crank and no major issues were found. I tried my best to work on the price since I know it was on the high end... However, the marina, who owns the boat, came back with records of all the work they performed on the boat. They argued that the asking price was what they had in it. They used it as one of their tow boats; when not in used, it was kept up on a 2nd story indoor rack...interesting...

Bottom line, it's mine and will be delivered next week. I did find one locally, yesterday, and it showed its age and exposure to salt water far worse than the one I purchased. The upside was it gave me a first hand look at the size and layout of the boat. It may be my imagination, but this is the biggest, widest, chunkiest (is that a word?) 22' I have ever seen.

Unrelated: After I mailed off payment for the boat this morning my new NJ Property Tax bill arrived. It's up. But the value of my house according to everyone in the known world is down 30%. Luckly, I mailed off the PY check first.....otherwise, she might still be on a rack in North Tonawanda.



How about that. Back in November of '71 my father took delivery of our 23 cuddy with bridge. We kept it at Great Bay Marina out at the end of Mystic Islands.



Great Bay Marina is still there.... at the end of Radio Road, probably different owners these days. I'm just over the bridge when leaving Osborne Island...
1971 Penn Yan Barracuda
Little Egg Harbor, NJ 08087

#16 PENN YAN NUT

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 03:24 PM

Congrats on your Penn Yan purchase . Looking forward to seeing some more pics of your boat . Buying a boat is alot more fun than paying property taxes anyway . :unsure:
55 trailboat (model BGS Backrest Senior)57 evinrude 18 h.p. / 45 evinrude zephyr 5.4 h.p. four cylinder
58 evinrude 18h.p. fastwin
75 23' AVENGER "S" PYBAM304M75H 360 CHRYSLER RWC LHR
76 30 sf

Past Penn Yans
77 23' AVENGER "SFT" PYBAM578M77I 318 CHRYSLER FWC RHR (SOLD)
71 Explorer 20'5" I/O (non tunnel) 155 v-6 kaiser / omc stringer (SOLD)

#17 Ted Anderson

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 04:37 PM

An interesting, and irritating development. The marina called me this afternoon to tell me the bimini top as seen in the sale photo....check out my first post... can not be found. They said it was probably old and rotted anyway. They did not offer to reduce the price. :unsure:

I don't want to lose the boat, but I think its a shady to show a boat with nice, big, matching bimini and then say...oops, we can't find it.

Any thoughts?
1971 Penn Yan Barracuda
Little Egg Harbor, NJ 08087

#18 alexkids

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 05:58 PM

An interesting, and irritating development. The marina called me this afternoon to tell me the bimini top as seen in the sale photo....check out my first post... can not be found. They said it was probably old and rotted anyway. They did not offer to reduce the price. :angry:

I don't want to lose the boat, but I think its a shady to show a boat with nice, big, matching bimini and then say...oops, we can't find it.

Any thoughts?



Shady is perhaps the understatement. You are now left WITHOUT SHADE :unsure:

Perhaps you ought to consider PENN YAN NUT'S Explorer. He may want to find a good home for it. At least you have a reputable seller with a top notch boat.

(Dave send the bird dog fee to my address :angry: )

#19 PENN YAN NUT

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 06:01 PM

An interesting, and irritating development. The marina called me this afternoon to tell me the bimini top as seen in the sale photo....check out my first post... can not be found. They said it was probably old and rotted anyway. They did not offer to reduce the price. :unsure:

I don't want to lose the boat, but I think its a shady to show a boat with nice, big, matching bimini and then say...oops, we can't find it.

Any thoughts?

Yes I would say that calls for a price reduction . Thats a large top and will cost plenty to replace . It doesnt look old and rotten in the picture .
Alex , My explorer isn't a tunnel version though . But hey , thanks for the help .
55 trailboat (model BGS Backrest Senior)57 evinrude 18 h.p. / 45 evinrude zephyr 5.4 h.p. four cylinder
58 evinrude 18h.p. fastwin
75 23' AVENGER "S" PYBAM304M75H 360 CHRYSLER RWC LHR
76 30 sf

Past Penn Yans
77 23' AVENGER "SFT" PYBAM578M77I 318 CHRYSLER FWC RHR (SOLD)
71 Explorer 20'5" I/O (non tunnel) 155 v-6 kaiser / omc stringer (SOLD)

#20 Ted Anderson

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 07:13 PM

Yes I would say that calls for a price reduction . Thats a large top and will cost plenty to replace . It doesnt look old and rotten in the picture .
Alex , My explorer isn't a tunnel version though . But hey , thanks for the help .



I just fired off an email asking for a price reduction...or produce the bimini as shown in the sales ad... let's see how professionally they handle it.
1971 Penn Yan Barracuda
Little Egg Harbor, NJ 08087




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